Referendum, EU or Immigration?

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Tryval

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Heard an interesting comment on BBC4 yesterday, re, do UK voters really understand what the EU referendum is about, Economics and the future of the UK on the World stage, Or a referendum on immigration, into the UK from Europe and beyond. I'm not sure that the distinction has been made sufficiently clear

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foureyes-10044529 1458391535

Well, good on the BBC for once again stating the bleeding obvious. Of course the 'out' campaign is trying to make this all about immigration, in order to garner the votes of the UKIP voters, the Islamophobes and the racists. Good luck with making the point above all the noise from the right wing press.

jackorjason 1458567682

Why ( foureyes ) is it racist / Islamophobic to be worried about opening Britain to the same type of problems Germany , Sweden , Holland , Denmark etc are now ' suffering from ' ?

Mickrest 1458576705

What Germany, Sweden, Holland and Denmark are suffering from is a refugee problem. It has little or nothing to do with the exchange of labour agreement within the EU. Britain itself benefits greatly from this exchange a) because it needs immigrant labour / skills and b.) because more than 2 million Brits benefit from living / working in Europe. The problem of the countries you list is primarily caused by their geographic location.

jackorjason 1458579762

The problems are ( I agree ) a refugee problem and yes an ' exchange ' of labour is important - my point was / is that because of the huge number of migrants flooding into Europe Britain may be forced to take a number under EU membership ( these migrants are likely to be badly educated and offer no skills but will need housing , health care etc - producing a greater strain on over stretched resources ) - being worried about this should not be thought of as racist

Mickrest 1458682433

I understand your concerns and wasn't at all implying that you are racist. I think that most of the refugees are more likely to be skilled than unskilled. Only the wealthy (hence probably professional) can afford the exorbitant cost of getting to Europe. Even if they were unskilled, we actually have a very high demand for unskilled labour in the UK - in jobs that native Brits are reluctant to do because of the inconvenient hours - e.g. catering, hotel work, service stations.

More importantly, however, is the fact that the ridiculous foreign policy of most Western countries (e.g. interfering in Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia etc.) has fermented radicalism and revolt in the Middle East. especially among Sunni Muslims and the increase in the number of refugees is a result of the ensuing violence and chaos, and the West really has a moral duty not to ignore these hapless refugees in their hour of need.

geegee42 1462028523

Badly educated, offer no skills?, what's that all about, before the Syrians started blowing each other up it wasn't exactly some third world hell hole, they do have schools and universities, plenty of people train in various professions, its the UK thats found wanting, why do you think they employ so many foreigners, its because the Brits arn't up to it, but anyway a lot of the refugees are actually economic migrants not refugees, these are the problem ones, not the Syrians.

jackorjason 1462035380

geegee - who said Syria was ' a third world hell hole ? ' - There were many high quality schools / universities before they decided to knock seven bells out of each other ( or more to the point the Government decided to knock seven bells out of those who wanted democratic change ! ) - but you are correct it is economic migrants who are causing the problem in Europe ( or again more to the point those who see European countries who give free education / housing / medical care + money to those who apply / ask / demand - and then try to change the country they have ' swarmed ' into )

Mickrest 1462097454

Most economic immigrants originate from outside the EU and, since 2006, there's been a strict points system in place for these immigrants - akin to the points system that countries like Australia and New Zealand employ. In practice, this means that the numbers of economic immigrants from outside the EU is very tightly controlled - e.g. they have to have a job to go to and have to have skills that are in demand in the UK. Admittedly, within the EU there's a free exchange of labour, but this exchange benefits British people as well as Poles, Hungarians etc. More than 2 million Brits live / work in the EU and benefit from it in a number of ways.

oldminiman-10052272 1462785154

What about the latest scare from Dodgy Dave, first we had the one about Expats in Europe being regarded as illegal immigrants if we vote to leave now he has topped that one with " Brixit could cause a World War". Has he lost it? Both camps must at least treat us with some Intellegence even if they appear to have none.

Tryval 1462792837

Although there are significant problems with the EU, I think that Euope is stronger, more stable politicaly and economically together.
The UK will inevitably, be a very small international politically and economically player alone.
How will an exit affect health care etc for expats?
Not too worried personally about that one though.

oldminiman-10052272 1462863615

I tend to agree that we would be stronger remaining but I do wish we could be told more rather than the destructive banter coming from both sides which is turning people off voting. Confusion exists in the electorate because of a total lack of guidance plus the rushing through of the referendum before we know the fact. This is the most important decision the electorate have been asked to and will ever be asked to make for their future and the future of Britain. Most will go to the poll confused and even bewildered by the information, back biting, scare and fear coming out of both camps. I for one remain undecided .

Tryval 1462867805

My opinion counts for nothing as I cannot vote, just pay tax in the UK:-(.
Very democratic
Agree about the lack of info though.
However the effect of that, would be Stay, for me, too many unknowns re jumping off the cliff.

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