CIPAV

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having worked in France as a Chartered Surveyor since 2005 I have this week received a demand for payment from an organisation by the name of CIPAV - never heard of them before.It appears it is a government organisation demanding payment from independent professionals in addition to the URSSAF cotisations I have been paying since registration in 2005!A search on the Internet suggests this is a badly run state organisation  which has resulted in demonstrations across France due to ridiculous financial demands being made.I have asked my accountant for help but if anyone has any history on this organisation it would be helpful.

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Josephine-Blogger-853338 1496061135

For years CIPAV was a total shambles as you say, impossible to get answers to queries or any sense out of them, they made up their on rules and seemed to think they weren't accountable to anyone, and they were in fact condemned by the tribunal as not fit for purpose. A new team was appointed and last year against all the odds they managed to clean their act up and they seem to be back on track. They set up a new web portal and a telephone helpline that actually helps, and started getting their records up to date. In 2015, after paying contributions to them since 2010, I was still being told that they had no record of me, I didn't exist, I had paid no contributions and had no pension entitlement. Now I can log in and access my full contributions records since 2010, get pension forecasts and all the information I could possibly need. In fact late last year they held a series of roadshows all over France for their members, I went to the one local to me, and they gave presentations of the services they provide, the basis for the calculations, the different options, and they had advisors on hand to give one to one advice and sort out any outstanding problems. Having spent several years loathing CIPAV and despairing of having any pension to look forward to, I do now feel tentatively confident that they've turned into an efficient organisation and I will after all be getting a pension.

It could be that your invoice is a result of them going back over the shambles of the last few years and trying to straighten out all the mess, and I suppose it's possible that you weren't charged the cotisations that the law says you should have been paying. Hopefully if you contact them they'll explain the basis of the calculation and you'll be able to check whether it's correct or not, or your accountant will. But as always, the first thing to check is that the email really is from CIPAV and isn't a scam.


Manny -Finian-S-967310 1596020261

Hi, If you're registered as independent or entrepreneur, and CIPAV has contacted you concerning "social contributions", you can be sure that URSSAF gave them your name. This happened to me when I arrived in 2012, but had already been registered as independent (having worked here in Paris before). CIPAV is not new - they're supposed to be a "retirement/pension plan" but then the French system is like a Swiss cheese. We pay into so many things - URSSAF, insurance + complementary insurance, etc. - that it's difficult to know what's what. The reason for problems, mistakes ans scams is due to the fact that, URSSAF and CIPAV employees do not receive proper training, and usually do not stay at their post for long. The turnover is huge. This also goes for the administration. 

Have they improved? Yes, there was a huge scandal about all this due to mistakes made and fraud in the past 20 years which has left many people without enough points for retirement. Folks were paying, the money disappeared and clerks didn't do their jobs. Are they better? I'd say maybe. Their so called "point system", based on earned per semester/year = 1-4 points, is still a cheating game. 

Just to finish = the reason the government has, in the past 10 years, pushed so many to creating their own business, to go "entrepreneur" or independent is to cash in the contributions/charges/taxes to sustain a highly indebted system that  is no longer efficient.  

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