Complaints about unkind comments

82 Replies
hazelL-M

1422311578

Message

With AngloINFO's permission the forum "rules" were relaxed on Dordogne as an experiment a while ago but increasingly there are comments about posts that are critical and unhelpful. So, there is a choice here: 1. Forum administration goes back to being tough on posts which ignore the forum rules found here: http://dordogne.angloinfo.com/forum/generalrules/ and unkind and disrespectful posts are removed. Some might feel that they can say what they like and ignore the conditions that apply to the use of the AngloINFO forum as set out in the link but perhaps others might welcome more moderation? 2. Members try to be less negative and respect not just the forum rules but other posters. I do not believe free speech is an excuse for unkindness. It is up to you.....please let me know your views. They will be respected and acted upon. Hazel  

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Replies

Sola178 1422313153

You need strict rules. Freedom of speech is fine but not while posters, me included hide behind an alias. I have noticed that Admin on some AI has edited controversial wording at times as well as removing unsuitable posts; I believe that this is necessary. There are times when posts warrant a response that might be seen as negative perhaps Admin needs to step in earlier at times.

getmecoat 1422313435

I think that all members should have their emails as their user names. I have often seen that a 'favoured' few are allowed to say what they like while the rest are often removed without any thought. It does seem like one rule for some and another for the rest.

joeyannfred 1422314651

I had noticed the increase in posts on AI Dordogne, and wondered why, now I know. I have also noticed the virtual completely quiet AI South Aquitaine where either the posts are policed so hard that it is not worth writing, or maybe nobody there uses AI or maybe there is nobody from the UK living there?


Maybe Admin could put a time delay on posts, so that they can be censored before they are published?

Teapot-890856 1422316750

Getting rid of alias's would be a step forward but also if posters actually didn't post about things they don't know anything about that would help too. Serial posters are often the issue but also can be the life blood of forums so keep up the good work Hazel but be nice to me please :-)


Posting using your email address would give robots a fine time sending all the spam to your inboxes.

pieman 1422348877

Solution no 2 definitely. Censorship is bad. Whatever your personal opinion, you shouldn't hide behind your pseudo to make your comments unkind. Respect other people's feelings and be careful how you present your point of view.


Having said that, I have seen that sometimes an attempt at a bit of humour is misinterpreted as being unkind when it is only meant as a joke. We have to remember that some people don't have a sense of humour.

friartuck 1422349332

...are we adults or what?...

Msquared-103207 1422349526

Well said Oasis!

JohnRobert-515279 1422352116

I think there are as many ways of "posting"as there are posters?


Many differing views, ways of life and ways of expression .An open forum should be just that , open , perhaps " unkind posts " are just a way that some have of being critical/cynical ? Surely no one can expect everyone to be sweet and soft all the time , that is not how life is.


kind regards John

OrlandoGibbons 1422353764

I agree that people are not always sweet and kind and that is a reflection of life. HOWEVER, instead of  reflecting how life is, could we not try to reflect how life ought to be in a better world?


 

alex crowe 1422353945

What do people think about some kind of warning system? In a workplace, two verbal warnings, then two written warnings, then dismissal is reasonable. I'd be tempted to have the warning(s) public, next to the user name, but that's because I like to have everything out in the open.


Alex

George's girl 1422356678

Freedom of speech, yes, after all that is what a Forum is for. But NOT freedom of speech which hurts,insults or belittles anybody. I have seen some totally unkind postings on AI, and wonder how people get away with it. The trouble being, I suppose, is that not everybody has the same values. I have been a member of AI in the past, then left as I found people so nasty. But then I thought that having been in France 35 years I have knowledge which could help newcomers, so I rejoined. However, there is no way I would use my real name, or have my email address posted in public. For many years I was hounded by a vicious ex, and I felt secure behind an alias. There are far too many nutters out there, and on here sadly, to  go public. Trust me I have been there.


 

Fish24 1422361030

Alex Crowe - Congratulations, Alex, as far as I know, you are the only one I have found on AI forums who has accurately produced an 'open' , interesting and detailed Member Profile which backs up any postings you give.


Perhaps the suggestions of 'warnings' could be inscribed discreetly on there?


Personally, I am guilty as so many of you are, including Hazel (not everyone knows you are our Dordogne Moderator and the same aplies to many of the other anonymous Moderators), and would like to propose that everyone takes a look and updates their Member Profile similar to Alex's and hope that we can all have a more subjective view of the 'community'.


On a personal basis and when I wish to check the background information given, I do have a tendancy to look at the Member's Profile situation or background and where the majority of members give absolutely no information (site maps need to be rechecked) but which is their perogative.


JohnRobert - I don't believe that the AI discussion forums are 'open' as they are managed by the private UK Ltd and their 'closed' publicised policy.


Yes, I agree that certain posters go overboard (because of anonymity) and I'm glad that Hazel is trying to pull us all back on line but I do agree also with oasis's comments re 'misinterpretation of humour' and I go for Solution no. 2 but there is room for a little kind-worded 'negativity' meant to be heeded as a 'warning'.


 

Chrispy-108529 1422364934

It would help at times if posters kept to the topic or question.  Sometimes and we are all guilty, a flash bulb goes off in the head and posters seem to ignore  the original post and give an irrlelevent answer.  It seems to me on matters of procdure, if the proposed answer does not add to the op's question he should not press the "send" button. 

Sola178 1422365450

Even that is a matter of opinion Chrispy. I lite the fact that secondary threads develop within the OP and these can often be useful for other readers. Some people find this type of behaviour normal while others hate going off a a tangent. Surprisingly we don't all see things the same way, that's normal.

Chrispy-108529 1422365961

All very well but if the op  says " has anyone in a specific set of circumstances actually done X?" and you get a load of " a man in the pub told me.." type answers, they are spamming a specific request for help and would be better off starting a separate thread.

alex crowe 1422374885

Thanks for the positive feedback Fish24. I hear George's girl's point - and accept that being open about your identity is not for everyone. Personally, I find it a useful way to keep my comments focused, honest and relevant. We should be able to defend everything we say and write - and accept the consequences if we cause distress. The SFN has a strict policy of using real names, which seems to work well. I saw someone booted off there the other week for publicly disgracing themselves. Some offences deserve instant dismissal...

pie in the sky 1422380730

SFN  Alex has strict rules?


Depends on who brakes the rules !


 

cab47 1422381533

Freedom of expression is our right 


one persons opinion of something or somewhere may offend  or annoy but that should not prevent that view being published.


Its a forum about this part of France and will involve various different viewpoints on an item of subject matter.


I prefer by far the Angloinfo of today without the high & mighty moderators choosing what is suitable and whats not.


Sometimes people get a bit courageous and say things on here that they wouldnt dream of saying out loud to the same people if they were face to face ..... 


 

halloween 31 1422383306

i read the anglo info as it realy is very informative,but there are a lot of sarcastic remarks posted by some people, we are ALL here living our dream, some people are on a tight budget while others are very well off, it is unkind of those peopleto be condesending,not all of us have the same opportunities in life. So everyone needs to be respectful to each other.

What day is it? 1422384724

I noticed that the mood had lightened and welcome it.


However, as posted by another member earlier in this thread, some posters seem to get away with anything whereas others are immediately chastised/posts edited or removed.


Moving on .............. anonymity gives the trolls and keyboard warriors carte blanche and we must accept that, until shown for what they are, unacceptable behaviour will occur.


We have all (well, almost all!) disagreed with each over over the years, but a small minority are unable to debate their point without insulting the individual, Calling someone an "idiot" and ridiculing them is out of order, I would suggest.


Provided the rules are clearly displayed and there is an easier method of reporting unacceptable behaviour, why not start wih outlawing personal insults and barring offenders?


In doing so, we all must accept that humour, irony and also mild sarcasm is acceptable on a public forum where many have differing views.


Someone has already said ...... we are all adults. If we were in the local bar, we would have a debate and make our points in an adult fashion with no doubt a good dose of humour, irony and/or sarcasm, but personally insulting someone to their face is likely to result in a bunch of fives .... and we all understand that. That, for me, is the missing criterion on here.


So, why not start by saying that personal insults will result in a ban, temporary or total, depending on the severity/frequency? That in itself should/may take out some of the recent heat on here.


 

aboris 1422385455

cab47,


If people say things on here that they would not dream of saying out loud to the same people when thay are face to face then they are not courageous at all but merely cowards.


To answer Hazel's question, I think solution 2 is preferable but with the addition of a form of warning system based on 'three strikes and your out'.


 

What day is it? 1422392257

What has happened to my recent post. please, Hazel?


If deleted, please say why, otherwise this topic is meaningless.

What day is it? 1422392395

Please ignore my post, Hazel ........ senior moment!  ........ let the debate continue!

metisse 1422393995

Is'n t there an old adage.. Ask a stupid question get a stupid answer.....I think in some cases people should reflect on what question they are asking before pressing post, perhaps then they won't get upset, miffted, or what ever when a reply comes back that they dislike..


 

keith jackson 1422395473

the trouble with any forum is the fact that you will always get people who get upset about a post if they strongly disagree with it.yes,no one should be insulting by being rude and offensive,but a lot of people on here ,start shouting and belittling posts,eg hunting,with the normal ;boring response of you live in france,except it. if people have a anti feeling,then why should they not have a say? a forum is for healthy debate,and long let it be that way,and providing a post is not racist,or downright offensive,then there should not be censured posts. we do not live in a communist despot regime,or do we?

alex crowe 1422398768

Agreeing with Keith's point makes me wonder if it's possible to have a system of "Like" and "Dislike", where people could express their feelings about comments anonymously - without animosity.

What day is it? 1422399210

I agree, Keith. There can be several sides to a debate and everyone is entitled to have their say.


Some members do seem unable - or unwilling -  to do so without resorting to personal insults ..... and I would include belittling in that ...... if we could get rid of that, the level of debate should improve.


And I also agree with Metisse ....... members should think about what they're posting. An easy example is e.g. "any good restaurants around here?" and not giving their location. Where is "here"?! Likewise simple stuff where a little thought would suggest practical solutions, rather than asking an anonymous forum.


My view is there needs to be both carrot and stick. If the debate is to improve, some members need to lighten up and others need to stop the personal insults and belittling sarcasm. The complaints system needs to be more evident and open. I hope that's within Hazel's remit, but perhaps not?

Bazinga-943204 1422400487

Hazel - you've done a pretty good job up to now. it's your site and someone has to take charge. It's also in your interests to ensure that the forum is managed as fairly as possible so that people are attracted to it. You seem well capable  of spotting problems and trends, and whilst those who are reprimanded will make a fuss, most others will accept your actions or not even notice them. Most of the possible solutions that are being offered are easily side stepped by anyone wishing to put in a little effort and lets be honest - many enjoy reading some of the bickering that goes on.


It's not perfect, but it isn't broken

LadyMorgana 1422465076

there do seem some people who appear to delight in posting rude offensive replies to innocently asked questions, and the amount of people I hear in other forums saying they no longer look in AI dordogne directly because of the unhelpful "few" on here make it unpleasant, so maybe a tightening of the rules as human nature is what it is and has proved it over the last couple of months

What day is it? 1422475929

@LadyMorgana


Cannot agree with you, I'm afraid.


The real reasons people on other forums left AI were due to a) the lack of proper debate, owing to excessive censorship, leading to b) the perception that AI was becoming merely an advertising site and not a forum at all. Just read those other forums, it's very clearly stated. Many on here are also members of other forums.


I am sure everyone will agree that things have lightened up of late, thanks to Hazel. This is to be encouraged, at the same time providing safeguards against the trolls and aggressive posters.


If the debate isn't opened up, the "forum" will die. That would be a great pity, as it is very different to the other expat forums and has its own place in the France expat community.


 

LadyMorgana 1422478022

What day is it, i was actually referring to quite nasty posts that I've read in response to simple questions,  not debates,  just people asking for help, from supposedly friendly experienced ex pats who appeared to take delight in ridiculing the questioner - unnecessary & yes nasty, & yes quite a few people have abandoned AI, debating is one thing, being helpful and answering questions that someone has taken time to post seems to be something else again.  Not everyone I add but that IS the case, I can't comment on whether lately things have improved I haven't been here, tho I did note today some negativity aimed towards someone who was asking about areas in the Dordogne with an expat contingent, 

Melou 1422480049

Many interesting thoughts so far.
It is good of Hazel to ask for our views - it is normally forbidden by the Rules to discuss the management of the site online. I think that to begin with, this is therefore a chance for us all to consider two basic questions: [1] What is the purpose of AngloINFO? and [2] What is the purpose of the 'Discussions' page?
The answer to [1] is that AngloINFO is a commercial business operation, which makes its money by selling on-line advertising into a niche market. The higher the readership (partly measured by registered users, like us), the more advertising they can attract, and the more advertisers will be prepared to pay.
[2] The Discussions page is a key part of attracting AngloINFO's target market (us) to look at the site - and the adverts.
As others have already pointed out, Hazel has done a great job in building the Dordogne site - it is easily the most active of all 20 French sites, as far as I can see. The effectiveness of the Discussions page is therefore just as important to the AI management as it is to us, the participants. 'Get involved', is the concept they promote all the time. We all know that many old names have disappeared from the postings, apparently dissatisfied with the editing Rules - and quite a few of them (including me) have been banned from the forum by Admin (some, like me, to return under a different pseudonym). This cannot be the best outcome, either for AI management or us.
My concise OED defines 'discussion' as 'examination by argument; debate'. Interesting, that. We all know that if you ask six people for their opinion about a bottle of wine, you will probably get six differing views - maybe a debate, and maybe an argument.
So it is with the AngloINFO Forum (surely a more appropriate name than 'Discussions'?). You cannot expect uniformity of opinion, and so it is inevitable that people will get heated sometimes about what others say. It's also inevitable that some people think they know best - or that they can answer a question which actually they have little knowledge about. But that should be the Fun of the Forum - there is never any excuse for rudeness, and making a joke can be just as hurtful, and therefore misfire in its intent.
On the other hand, a totally normal part of a discussion is that it develops as it goes - so personally I have never understood the concept that Admin should delete something for going 'off-thread'. Providing the OP gets an answer to their post, the development of the thread is what makes a Forum interesting - and brings readers to the AI site.
However, since the launch of what was at first called the 'General forum' in Aquitaine ten years ago, editing out such misdemenours has demonstrably not worked. If it had, we would not be having this exchange of views today.
The idea that everybody is able to hide behind a pseudonym needs examination, as Fish24 and others have pointed out. Many members sign their posts with their real name anyway - maybe we would all think twice about what we say if we had to say who we really are (at least we would know that our friends might be reading it - so peer pressure would come into play).
So - for my couple of euro-cents worth, I would table the following suggestions -
1. Self-regulation should be the basis of all posts
2. Members will be expected to police any unacceptable comments by posting their objection
3. Admin retains the editorial right to delete - on the basis of culturally unacceptable postings such as racism; and if members reaction to a comment demonstrates that the Forum has been justifiably offended
4. Any sentence, paragraph, or post consequently removed by Admin should be identified by [sentence deleted by Admin] etc - in order to retain the sense of the thread
5. The concept of going 'off-thread' should be removed
6. Members should post simply under their own name, not a pseudonym
7. Members should be required to fully complete their Members Profile
8. The Discussions page should be renamed 'Forum'

Fish24 1422508050

Bis to my previous posting and comments on 'they' who have proposed and 'she' will dispose!!


Yes, we are all adults and we know when we take the risk of offending, being rude, being un-necessarily critical, even obnoxious at times, etc. but then you must take the risk of being judged by others according to moral 'freedom of expression' acceptable by all who read AI.


I have never understood the AI heading 'Discussions' in order to ask a 'simple question' which could require a 'yes, I do' or 'no, I don't' -type answer.  Many posters do not even know how to ask a question nor how to discuss a subject.  It is just as important to ask for information more precisely as it is to give an answer.


Yes, many of us do go off-subject because, in searching for additional, helpfull but factual information or giving updated rules and regulations plus personal experience, which is very time-consuming, it has occured to you that someone else, lost out there, might find additional feed-back of some use.  


I still have not known what is meant by the 'Report abuse' button!!  I have used it once, back in February 2013 from a certain Ch....zze, who kindly informed me in no uncertain vulgar terms, to mind my own business.  What do AI term as 'abuse'?  Info. required, please.


What do people really mean by the word 'Like' or 'Dislike' when they either Agree (full stop) or Don't Agree and give their polite reasons as in a normal discussion where posters can openly put their views without being harassed, etc.  I was always taught that one should not use the word 'like' in the written language - see a dictionary for alternatives.


I do not agree with posting people's email addresses on a public forum, also warned by AI, and is common sense.  If the Member Profile's were completed relatively truthfully and only accessed by other members, there would be no more hiding behind closed doors.  Your name should be sufficient information regarding your public views on any  subject but everyone seems to agree that maybe the warnings should be divulged although I not so sure.


Whilst I am on this subject of complaints, and going off-thread which I do frequently, I have come across a few 'advertisers', accepted and checked by AI, who do not give either their SIRET numbers nor officially declared registration details on their publicity and that includes both CdeC, CdeM and AEs.  It does not inspire confidence.


I have said this previously, AI have a normal tendancy to treat the SW forums as 'expat', which is a totally different international world and I think that the rules and regulations should be revised with wisdom and help from all our local Moderators who could also be more forthcoming under their 'aliases'. 


 

pie in the sky 1422517764

Melou has hit the right notes.


I understand the need for information and even though I have lived here for 7 years there


are things to discover all the time about people who repair ride on mowers and insurance companies who can offer me a better deal. New restaurants opening and Michelin stars being


awarded....that is all good to know..


Sometimes it is pleasant to go on line and discuss something with strangers who will share


ideas and temper with the adverserties of life. Facebook and such are just extensions of this


concept.


What I can not understand is why people feel the need, and infact do come to this site with


the intention to hurt others. But this needs to stop.


I have endured a bad dose of this over the years.....on her and elsewhere and it is very


unpleasant. Fortunately I came from London and have come across some situations which most


of you would have only seen in TV productions.


So the pain leaves me with just scars of dissapointment.


Others may find it all too difficult.


Not an easy task Hazel M........moderating and developing.


 

friartuck 1422526484

...i haven't used my name online since somebody tracked me down from the other side of the world having got hold of my details from one of the other AI lookalikes...and i'm not about to do so now...it's a real shame that we aren't adult enough to deal with any crap that gets written on here; sticks and stones, and all that...what difference does it make if some weeble gets their kicks from being rude or otherwise stupid in response to a post?...just ignore them, better still laugh at them, they aren't worth the effort or the energy spent chuntering on about them...


...it's a sad and sorry indictment of our little community that we have to rely on the 'prefects' to stop the school bullies picking on us...people are what people are and we can decide for ourselves who we wish to listen/speak to...at least, we should be able to...

friartuck 1422526535

...ps...how about an AI chatroom?...that will sort the sheep from the goats...;-)

George's girl 1422529295

Well, I wonder what Hazel  is making of these various opinions. She has given us three days now to express ourselves. It will be interesting to know now what you think, Hazel?

LadyMorgana 1422530056

Hazel ?

joeyannfred 1422534533

@friartuck            ..... sorting the sheep from goats? is that a jibe at us Welsh? (joke)

pie in the sky 1422535131

Friartuck.....interesting name.


Do you work with Robin Hood....if you do you are kind and generous towards others?
Joke.


But this forum does not, surely exsist for nasty remarks which are deely hurtful.


The editors of such material  should be policed.....nothing at all to do with anything other that it is unaccetable


to be abusive to others.

George's girl 1422538465

@ ladymorgana


yep Hazel,  the ,person who started this thread!

LadyMorgana 1422538651

sorry Georges Girl :-)


It was a lazy way to invite a response back from Hazel 

friartuck 1422543115

...i bow to the blood red dragon on its field of green, joeyannfred...

What day is it? 1422564328

friartuck said:

 

"...i bow to the blood red dragon on its field of green, joeyannfred..."

 

Not a week tomorrow, we don't!

 

Seriously, hope it's a good match and good luck to the winner .....

 

...... England!

friartuck 1422566456

...in your dreams WDII...in your dreams!!!...

What day is it? 1422569079

Let's hope it's a good match ........ whoever wins?

friartuck 1422569546

...of course!...there are times when i wish i even liked rugby...;-)

hazelL-M 1422625670

An interesting discussion. Thank you everyone for  your comments.


So far as I can see the consensus is that the forum (I too prefer the term forum to that of 'discussions' but cannot change it) should be managed in some way. Of course, there are exceptions to that view but the recurring theme seems to be that posters should at least try to be helpful and that tart replies can be hurtful and that offensive language and real rudeness are not acceptable. I hope most people would agree with my 'take' on this so far.


I certainly do not believe that forum administration should smack of being a school prefect!


I do believe that the forum should be, to a very large extent, self regulating. That is what the report abuse button is about. It gives you scope to report a topic which you believe needs to be 'managed' in some way - and say why you want to report something.


To me, friendly humour is welcome on the forum but we should bear in mind that humour can misinterpeted. Sarcasm is a tricky issue - go too far and sarcasm can seem cruel and I don't think cruelty has a place in the forum (or anywhere else for that matter.) With this in mind, I think the sticks and stones point of view is fine for some but not everyone. Some people will take comments very personally and we should all be mindful of the impact of what we say.


The off topic issue is tricky too. It has happened on this thread. I do understand there can be a drift in conversation but suddenly this thread was highjacked by a private conversation about rugby. To me, that seems rude to the many contributors who took the time and trouble to consider and comment on my post. It also killed the thread. In other circumstances the jokes about rugby would have been removed as 'off topic' - rightly so, in my view and not just because I opened the discussion!


For me, as the franchisee, and as has been pointed out, of course I have a commercial interest in seeing the site being used. But AngloINFO is surely not just about advertising is it? The information pages, the What's On, the free classifieds, the new property pages and the jobs board, even the movie listings are also part of what makes AngloINFO what it is and I am constantly surprised by the wealth of knowledge displayed and shared on the forum and for that I, for one, am grateful.


Have a good weekend everyone!


Hazel


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 

JohnRobert-515279 1422654422

Well said Hazel


John


 

keith jackson 1422658926

 lets hope we have all learnt a few things from this discussion about a discussion perhaps we can all be a bit more tollerant  of each other.! 

pie in the sky 1422691088

I really hope so.


 

Onions-95019 1422704524

I agree, well said Hazel. I feel that as the forum becomes more popular and has greater participation and traffic the advertisers will have a greater audience as well as more people seeing them and looking at the classified etc.. 


For me using the forum for a few years this is the first place I come to search for anything because of the directory and the adverts. If I wasn't regularly using it and looking in on the forum chances are I wouldn't see them or think about them when I do need them.

Melou 1422735459

An excellent resumé, Hazel - how unfortunate was it that your exceptional posting, openly seeking the input of forum members, ended up demonstrating the inability of some members to to take on board the necessary self-discipline that will make any forum work in a constructive and positive manner. I'm very sad about that - it has undermined our cause for freedom from editing/monitoring/censorship, whatever you want to call it.


The only issue I would take up with you is over the naming of 'Discussions'. I totally understand that you cannot personally change the heading - but your start-point was that "with AngloINFO's permission the forum 'rules' were relaxed". So we expect you to report back to HQ - and they can make a decision on this one, applicable to all AI sites, worldwide. Please! 

JohnRobert-515279 1422738297

Hi Melou , if I understand your post correctly :-))


you are saying that some of the forum readers do not understand that discussions about censorship have nothing to do with Rugby football?


me , I am a simple soul , enjoy AI as entertainment .


kind regards John

What day is it? 1422740277

Well, Hazel's résumé is fair enough, but really confirms what is currently happening.


If we are to go ahead with confidence, we need to be assured that complaints made under the "report" abuse" button will be acted upon AND the complainant will be told what action is being taken.


I speak as one who reported abuse three times on a single thread and asked for a response.


No action was taken and I still have not yet had a response.


Perhaps we could have some clarification on this, please?

hazelL-M 1422748851

WDII


I  do not know what you are referring to by this comment and have sent you a PM in response to it. Please send me a link to the thread you are referring to and if possible copies of your emailed complaints by PM.

I think most people know that I never ignore communications from members (even the rude and nasty ones I sometimes receive!) and that they and you will understand that I want to look into what you are saying.

Once you send me the information I have asked  for I will investigate further and revert to you privately or if you wish,  publicly here.


I hope you will consider this intial response fair, responsible and helpful.

Kind Regards

Hazel

joeyannfred 1422749599

Hazel, I admire what you are doing within AI and I do not envy your position at all, you seem to be working 24/7 I just hope the renumeration is worth it all. Three cheers to you!!!

Foxie-986308 1422788203

l've held off putting in to this thread because I'm not Dordogne. However I would like to say that


1. the reason I visit the Dordogne forum as well as the ones that are local to me (Brittany and Normandy) is that the moderation here is more intelligent and grown up than on the others. I suppose I mostly post on threads either where the poster is asking about something that I've either had personal experience or reseached thoroughly for work purposes, so I feel able to offer advice and I think it's good to do so because I found a lot of useful advice on AI when I was considering moving so I'd like to pass that on; or threads that just happen to catch my interest. On the latter I don't mind in the least if my posts get deleted, it's just throw-away chit chat, but on the former I have sometimes been annoyed when I've spent quite a long time trying to explain something clearly, that the OP hasn't mentioned and seems oblivious to but is fundamental to their situation because if they were aware of it they wouldn't be asking the question they're asking. But my post it deleted because the moderator doesn't understand how it relates to the poster's question. Result, I wasted my time and the poster is still asking the wrong question.


2. I think that over-moderation is counterproductive, it's very true that if you treat people like children they'll act like them. People post things for sheer naughtiness sake sometimes, knowing that the post will be deleted soon so it doesn't matter. Mod-baiting turns into a bit of a game. Hazel treats people like adults so they're more likely to behave like the. Unfortunately many people also use other AI forums, and maybe they forget which they're on sometimes.


3. I also think it would be great if we could have smilies and things, and be able to edit posts - how frustrating when you write a long post, submit it, and then see you've missed a 'not' out so it's saying the direct opposite of what it should have said. Smilies are more than just silly little faces, they can defuse situations. Without smilies all the posts are monotone, it's like a conversation when nobody ever smiles or frowns or winks or nods. If you can put a frowny face in, that's less offensive than saying 'this has made me cross", if you put a puzzled face in, it's less likely to get a defensive irritated reaction than saying 'Your post doesn't make sense', and as you say, sometimes humour gets missed and needs a smiley to clarify.  Fact is, it's hard to communicate properly if you can't inject any kind of expression into your words. 


4. On the pseudonym thing, sorry I can't go along with that because I think it could be awkward for people who run businesses here. I'm sure a number of us wouldn't want to merge our business persona and our private persona. Not that I pretend to my clients to be something that I'm not, but I like to take my professional hat off when I stop work, and if I join in a discussion about what how often I do the housework or how long my 'flu lasted, well I would prefer clients not to be earwigging on that side of my life. 


Sorry to ramble on - I'm waiting for the washing to finish! - but for me the ideal would be light essential moderation and an email to the poster to explain why. Which I think is probably what you do, Hazel. Please keep treating us like grown ups, and we'll try to act like them, won't we guys?

Fish24 1422790853

Sorry, Foxie, (now just discovered you are a lady who deals with the household chores) - just a quickie to say that I have known of a forum where even the funny 'smilies' can be turned into 'indecent exposure'!


I understand your reasons for the 'pseudonym' thing but it could be adapted, non?  Those who like thing clear and other who have business limitations.


Welcome to join us, as I join your neighbours occasionally and enjoy your comments and advice..

Foxie-986308 1422793974

Thank you Fish24. Although some would question whether I'm a lady. (I wouldn't have posted this on Brit or N forums as I'd have expected it to be deleted immediately for being off topic. Does a friendly exchange add value to the thread or not? Discuss.)

Melou 1422819526

An excellent post, Foxie Lady - your 1st point should be very seriouslyt considered by AI management. I also think that the use of emoticons may well help - if the AI site can handle them, from a technical point of view.


Your Point 3 also raises the idea that the site would be improved if we could subsequently edit our postings ourselves. Again, if technically possible, an excellent idea! . . . even if it was only to be able to change some of the embarrassing spelling and grammatical mistakes that somehow slip in so easily!


A couple of other points have arisen also - problems with the use of the 'abuse' button have been commented on. Hazel sees this as a way of members being able to take part in managing the forum, but we too have experienced a total lack of response on the one occasion that we have resorted to using it.


Also the highly important need to recognise that for many members, who do not have the benefit of anybody other than the cat to share their views with, this forum is a hugely valuable outlet, resource , and social contact point - an opportunity for a human exchange, laced with a little banter. 

bakebeen 1422830351

What is free speech? the right to put ones view or comment!, i'm guessing if the charlie hebdo used or commented on Anglo it would be removed, pronto!, in fact it was many times on many of the sites, not the pictures, just comments surporting it, the Admin should have made an open apology for deleting the posts.


If the Dordogne wishes to leave comments good or bad, then they have my support :-), unlike my local area, where nobody comments much, I wounder why?


Keep the status quo Dordogne, well done!

joeyannfred 1422832728

Well bakebeen, I could count on one hand the number of times my posts have been removed on another Ai forum in the past two days and I never wrote anything out of order, and you know how many times that is, yes three! I find the Dordogne AI and Hazel in particular much more lenient and forgiving. I know we all get upset at times, and it is a shame we cannot edit our posts. but hey ho. do you know who it is yet???

bakebeen 1422872253


 

I know what you mean about other Ai sites; I wrote a comment and when I return to the post it had been edited so much that, what was post that was dis-agreeing with some one had been made to look like I was supporting them!!

I wrote to them and asked them to not edited in such a way, as it was misrepresenting my view, no reply, but the post and the person I dis-agreed with, was then deleted.

I have seen topics that have run for days, with 10 plus posts, suddenly disappear!

Now i know how people in China must feel :-)

 

 

 

hazelL-M 1422874042

Please can I ask people not to comment on the way other AngloINFO sites manage their forums via this thread? It is off topic in the context of the original discussion and please appreciate that I feel it is unfair to compare my colleagues in this way.Thank you for being understanding about this.


 

Foxie-986308 1422875803

But since the basic question of the thread is, has the experiment in relaxing the standard AI rules on AI Dordogne worked or not? then in order to answer it, to some extent you can't help making the comparison with the user experience on other sites where the standard AI rules are applied by the book. So I would have thought, not totally off topic to make comparisons. But having said that I do agree that we shouldn't criticise other sites by name.

Bad Penny 1422896808

I find it difficult to understand how Hazell can be offering a "relaxation" of the rules here and in the next breath ask us not to mention another regional forum that has the most draconian policy on the 'net.  Hypocrisy?  Or am I just not up to speed on what is being said?

Foxie-986308 1422899358

I don't see it as hypocisy? A relaxation of the rules is not the same as putting the entire rule / netiquette book in the bin, is it. Not making personal attacks and not criticising individuals or organisations by name (because it's the forum equivalent of talking about people behind their backs, which most people agree is not nice) is a basic netiquette on most forums, I think.


It's easy enough to make a general point without pointing a finger and naming. And if people happen to read it and if the cap fits, they can wear it.

Melou 1422901057

Nothing to do with hypocrisy, Bad Penny - each of the 20 AngloINFO French sites is a franchise, and it is totally understandable and correct that Hazel does not wish people to critiscise her colleagues on her site. They cannot answer back - and Hazel has no jurisdiction over them. Let us all hope that the outcome of this Dordogne review of forum discipline bears fruit across all 20 sites.

Bad Penny 1422980203

Let's hope it does.  Hazell's efforts to actually communicate with the posters is highly commendable.  I have been deleted hundreds of times and been banned outright seven times and never once have I been able to find out why.  I suspect it is because I dared to take the opposing view to certain members favoured by him/her in control of the Delete button.  Emails to the relevant Admin. are never answered properly.  Years ago at least they would reply by trotting out the hallowed "terms and conditions" that never applied to anything I posted.  The problem became so bad that I started seeing postings about it on other forums outside the AI network. 


I hope I haven't offended anyone here by not agreeing totally with them and I have tried not to mention another regional forum by name and causing embarrassment to Hazell.

keith jackson 1422997318

it a little hard not to comment about other region ai areas when i have noticed that,even on this thread,there seems to be just as many postings from other areas as there is for dordogne! from as far afeild as normandy to eastern france. with that,there are bound to be comparisons with these peoples areas.

Die Elf 1423000066

Don't forget many people will have moved from the area where they first registered so may actually be 'local' after all.

Fish24 1423016975

And there again, Die Elf, they may not be registered there either.


Only about half a dozen members on this thread alone, have the common courtsey to stand up and be counted but there exists the possibility at all times to edit Member Profiles (even just a little would help to make you a human personality) or still remain an anonymous virtual non-entity.

Anonymous 1423052652

I think there are a great many postings from outside the immediate forum region because of the change made when the AI site was altered a couple of years ago.  A person used to have to log in separately to each site. Now you log in once and you are automatically logged in to all of them.  This encourages participation on a wider basis.  The option to display your actual region by your username is a matter of personal choice. 

Die Elf 1423052862

Sometimes the regions are not particularly straightforward geographically. For example, a poster living in Confolens is on the very edge of Poitou Charentes, close to the Limousin and not too far from the Dordoign. They are likely to be interested in posts from all three regions.

Onions-95019 1423076645

Anonymous, could you please say how you can view the whole forum at once? I can only view the Dordogne section which is great but would love to be able to see the whole site as you do with one click.

Melou 1423077122

Not quite what anonymous said - once you are onto any AI site you have to use the scrolling page at the bottom left to click on any particular region you want to read - it takes you to the Homepage, then you click on 'Discussions'

Onions-95019 1423077405

I am so sorry, I do not want to hijack. But Melou I can't seem to find what you are describing. I clicked on Discussions Home as well as Home in the upper left directory and there is nothing but adverts that scroll on the bottom left.  Are we all seeing the same thing?  :/

Fish24 1423078281

I found it easier to choose certain AI forums (I have 6 + Dordogne) and placed/register each of them in my Favourites (with a yellow star) along the top of my page and once there, I click from one to the other to have a read of the latest and back again to Dordogne with no problem.  It is very quick and doesn't require 'out and in again' manipulations but I don't 'log out' at all.

Onions-95019 1423078613

Thank you both. HazeL-M sorry for the hijack but thank you again, I found it!  :)

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Angela-Hope-973407 1614182762

i agree with the OP there is some assholes who use the internet to hurt and bully others it should not be allowed on this forum 

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