Gite owners and SIRET registration

13 Replies
geordieboy-543715

1295644814

Out of the blue, after 4 years of running our one little gite, the Deux-Sevres tax authorities have written to us to say we need to register with them to obtain a SIRET number. Has anyone else had the same correspondence please? We've made informal enquiries which suggest we don't need a SIRET to run our gite but having spoken to the tax people they say it's just to get us "known" to them! We've always declared the gite income and the gite is properly registered with the mairie etc. so I'm sceptical and would rather not "register" for anything unless we absolutely have to. Can anyone throw any light on this please - have we missed a change in the rules and regs?

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Replies

Diddle-545494 1295653619



Unless you need to register, then my advice is don't. Unless that is, the law has recently changed, of which I am not aware. I am registered as I needed to pay health cotisations to be in the health system but for the 1st 2 years we were not registered, on the advice of our French accountant. We simply declared our income on our tax return, so we paid income tax but not cotisations.
If you do register, then go Autoentrepreneur - ideal for gites. You pay 12% of your gross for cotisations & 1% for income tax.
If you register, then you will also be liable to pay Sacem (Performing rights society) if you provide a TV/video/CD/DVD player. I pay 180 euros pa. You should probably pay this anyway, but they only get you if you are registered and who's going to volunteer?
Also you will pay the new business fonciere tax, which has just replaced Taxe Professional. This is based on the property value. That was 600 euros this last year for me. However you are exempted from this tax for 3 years if you have opted to pay your tax via the 1% charge on gross income mentioned above.

In summary, if you don't need to pay health cotisations, don't register.

Advice given on the assumption that the law hasn't changed.

rowin-546313 1295655737

We have always been registered with the tax office & obtained a siret number. They can only register gites & B&Bs & they come under a special regime. We just declare our profits on our tax return form & have never in 6 years been asked for coatisations. As far as I am aware it it just so that you join the register of gite & b&bs. As to "they only get you if you are registered" ;simply not true. Friends of ours had a visit from TV license dept & were fined for not having a separate tv license for their gite? They were not, at that time, registered but were told that they were visited because the tourism authorities checked on web sites for gites & b&bs in the area which were then checked.

Diddle-545494 1295657464

Rowan, I was not referring to the fact that as you correctly state, you require a separate TV licence for a gite. I was referring to the payment to Sacem, the French performing rights society. A payment which is much more questionable, when one only provide UK satellite TV. & English language videos.
My apologies, I forgot to mention the requirement for an additional TV licence for a gite.

geordieboy-543715 1295681648



many thanks Diddle for taking the time to reply

geordieboy-543715 1295681736



thank you Rowin for replying. The form we have been sent asks for the rental total per square metre - were you asked that? Seems a bizarre sort of question to me?

travelinfrance-566799 1295686880

Maybe if the Deux Severes authorities have told you that you need to register with them you do need to register with them.


I doubt if they will think that following what people told you on a forum is a good enough excuse to stop them penalising you if you don't do as they have requested.


Maybe there is a French business advice service you can talk with, they, at least, will be officially recognised as such and if they give you bad advice it will be they who have to answer for it.

gypsy1 1295687100



I may be totally wrong here but I understood that you needed to register a gite/b&b if it was your primary income. So say you live here and that's all you do to earn money and you have no other income you need to register at the chambre de commerce and pay the necessary cotisations as well as declaring it on your annual tax return. If however it is a small secondary income as you are working or on healthy pensions you just declare it for tax purposes.

gypsy1 1295689775



Take a look at the following article which explains the rules clearly http://www.connexionfrance.com/how-to-set-up-a-gite-business-in-france-11125-news-article.html

So it looks like if the income you expect to receive is less than 23,000 € per year and is less than 50% of your total household income there is no need to register at the chambre de commerce. So it's as I thought really you need to have a significant other income to be exempt from registering.

Basically France wants social contributions out of you and if you're not paying them through other income then they want you registered to get some!!

wendyandchris 1295691041



You may find the following brochure 'mon guide du loueur en meublé de tourisme' available from the conseil général in la rochelle (for the charente maritime) tourism department.

It has a lot of very useful information, addresses, numbers regarding seasonal lettings.

It states the following :
''selon votre situation, vous pouvez etre amené a déclarer votre activité de louer en meublé aupres de l'administration:

la declaration d'existence se fait aupres du centre des finances publiques dans les quinze jours qui suivente l'ouverture du meublé. Cette démarche vous permet notamment d'obtenir le numero SIRET. Ce dernier est par example, exigé par l'agence nationale des cheques-vacances dans le cadre de l'agrément de votre locations''

I think the important bit is is the 'depending on your situation you may.....'
Certainly does not say it is obligatory. So if you do not need health cover because you have private cover for health and retirement then I guess your situation means you don't need a Siret.

May I ask if you are 'classified' ie have a star issued by the prefecture or other organisation like 'gites de france' ?

You say you 'declared' at the mairie. This is ONLY necessary if you are a classified property (This was confirmed to me last summer by the conseil generale in la Rochelle and has since been confirmed by the above brochure)
If you are not classified but 'declared' yourself, this may be why you have received your letter. I suspect lots of people will be getting letters and visits from all sorts of places now they have 'declared' themselves when they didn't actually need to.

The brochure is for Meublés de tourisme - NOT necessarily all 'Gite ruraux' and the information in it for them specifically. However a lot of the information is legal requirements for seasonal lettings relating to gites and meublés and is extremely useful, so I recommend if you are in the Charente Maritime, you should get one (I would like to think that all departments have issued one) Make sure you get the 2011 updated version - there is a huge amount of incorrect and outdated info on the internet - this puts it all right and quotes the laws to go with the statements.



rowin-546313 1295691170

Yes I agree gypsy1 there is no need to register at the chambre de commerce but the registration form is from the tax office which is a different thing altogether. Or it was when I registered. The special scheme for b&b & gites may have finished now but I dont think so. We registered under a micro bic at the tax office & did not get involved with anyone else. We visited the RSI to enquire & were told that because our income was low from rentals they would not take us but ,if it increased we would need to join them and pay coitisations. Travelinfrance ; Despite getting advice from the marie & and tax offices (officially recognised ?) as to what licenses we may have needed we were never told about seperate tv license's for gites & b&b's ( one for each gite or b&b room) & when we were visited & fined for not having them were told " ignorance is no excuse ; pay up"


Best advice must surely be to visit the tax office with a good French speaker & find out what the consequences are of registering or not. My tax office is St Maixient where I have always found the staff to be very helpful despite the fopar over TV license.

cognac.ok 1295691639

from my experience with the tax office is that each year rules are changed and even different depts do not understand the tax and cotisation implications , if the tax office is saying to register then do it this might be a polite nudge the next time they will not be polite , be aware about separating personal from business assets as well your, house could be at risk if not also under the a/e scheme which looks good ,this does not allow any subtraction of costs ,if you do it right you will pay nothing any way and also have viable accounts for when you sell , tax rules are its your responsibility to check on updates or changes ignorance is not a defence

wendyandchris 1295691805



Just another couple of useful points in the booklet:
La Contribution a l'audiovisuel public:
les loueurs de meublés doivent acquitter la contribution a l'audivisuel public pour chaque hébergement mis en location, équipé d'une ou plusieurs télévisions.

La Soiété des auteurs compositeurs et editeurs de musique (SACEM)
la diffusion d'oeuvres cinématographiques ou musicales par la biais d'un téléviseur ou d'une chaine HIFI appartenant au répertoire de la SACEM, a un public extérieur au cercle familial, est soumise a autorisation.

can give phone numbers / if anyone wants them

geordieboy-543715 1295770449



Juat wanted to say a huge thank you to all of you who took so much trouble to reply with your knowledge and experience. I must admit I am sceptical about registering with any part of officialdom unless absolutely necessary. We have one small gite and a tiny annual income from it so I'm guessing that we shouldn't have to register over and above what we have always done. As others have said our tax people in Niort are very helpful and friendly so I think I'll go and talk to them first. Many thanks to everyone again - have a great Sunday all!

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